Making a Statement: Navy Women's Lacrosse Beats Army to Clinch the Star Series

Welcome to Navy Sports Central - The Official Podcast of the Navy Sports Nation!

The Mids continued their strong month of April by chalking up two big wins over Army and two Patriot League Championships in women's golf and women's tennis. Meanwhile the Men's Rugby team advance to the College Rugby Association National Championship game with victories over Arkansas State and Life University.

But it's our Deep Dive segment that you won't want to miss. We'll be joined by Cynthia Lisa from the Class of 2000, and she will share her expertise as we break down the Navy Women's Lacrosse team's huge win over Army.

Our conversation will cover everything from the key performances to team strategy as we analyze how the Mids took down the Black Knights in such convincing fashion. 

Finally, Cynthia talks about how far the program has come in the last 20 plus years and what can be done to keep the popularity of Navy Women's Lacrosse on the rise. Trust me, this is an episode you won't want to miss!

Related Links: 

• Navy Women's Tennis Patriot League Championship Highlights
• Navy Women's Lacrosse Highlights vs. Army

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Music is provided courtesy of Audio Jungle. Artists featured in order:

• Seven In Music (Intro)
• Alexiaction (Deep Dive)
• Loka Music (Question of the Day Lead In)
• Cinematic Alex (Closeout Music)

Transcript

Karl: 0:14

Hi everybody. My name is Karl Darden and I'd like to welcome and thank all of you for joining us today on Navy Sports Central. I'm your host and this is the official podcast of the Navy Sports Nation where we take a deeper dive into Navy sports. It has been a fantastic couple of weeks for Navy sports teams. Since our last episode, the Mids have taken the Star Series with two solid wins over Army and won two Patriot League championships, and at the same time, the men's rugby team has punched their ticket to the national championship game for the second year in a row. I'll give you the details on our sports update coming up shortly. I'll give you the details on our sports update coming up shortly. But you are definitely going to want to be here for our deep dive segment because my guests and I are going to give you a complete breakdown of the Navy women's lacrosse team's huge win over Army. So stick around. We've got a lot of ground to cover. All right, great to have you with us. Everyone, whether you are a regular listener or this is your first visit. Thanks for taking the time Now.

Karl: 1:10

If you happen to be part of the Navy Sports Nation, you may know that my wife and I just got back from Annapolis about a week ago and it turned out to be a terrific visit. We got there on a Thursday night and the weather was a little bit iffy going into Friday, but everything cleared up nicely on Saturday. By the time the men's rugby game started, the Mids were taking on Arkansas State in the quarterfinal of the College Rugby Association Championships and the Mids really didn't disappoint. The wind was quite a factor in the first half, but Navy's offense got on track early and they ended up taking a 19-5 lead at halftime. But the Red Wolves were playing really, really well and even though it was 19-5, it was still anybody's game to win. But in the second half the Mids really got rolling. They had five different players score on tries and Ronan Krieger was practically automatic on his conversion and penalty kicks. Long story short, the final score was 57-5. Ben Howe and William Webb led the team with two tries apiece. And then just this past weekend, which was actually on Saturday, life University came to Annapolis with the winner earning a trip to Houston for the national championship game. The two teams did play in the fall, with the mids winning a very close match 20-14. This one was just about the same Navy scratched out a 17-10 lead at the half, and then their defense held the running Eagles pretty much in check the rest of the way. William Webb, jake Cornelius and Ian Bullock each scored tries to help lead the mids to a 27-17 win. The national championship game will take place on May 4th and it'll be carried by the Rugby Network.

Karl: 2:33

Now let's jump over to women's golf and talk about their second Patriot League championship. The team had a solid spring, performing well in several invitationals and winning their lone dual meet against the University of Delaware. The league championships were held at Bucknell University. The mids led by three strokes going into the third day, and senior Stephanie Lee was in strong contention for the individual title. The team put together a solid final round to defeat Boston University by nine strokes, and Lee also held on to take home the individual medalist honors. It was the first time in the history of the Navy program that a Navy golfer had finished on top of the leaderboard, so that was pretty awesome. Finally, not only did Coach Kylie Sullivan lead the team to a league championship in her first season, but she also took home Coach of the Year honors. So congratulations to the entire team and the coaching staff on a great win for the program. I'm going to go ahead and finish up with men's and women's tennis.

Karl: 3:19

The men's team defeated Army 4-1 to pick up the star for the eighth straight year. The mids broke through first by winning the doubles point, taking two of the first three matches. Then JJ Ederbeek and Aniketh Ayanila picked up wins in the number five and number six singles matches to take control. But the number one seed, sasha Panyon, ran into some trouble in his singles match. He uncharacteristically lost the first 10 games of the match to fall into a pretty deep hole and then, trailing Love 6, love 4, pannon regrouped and fought his way back into the match. He won six straight games to take the second set and then closed out his opponent 6-2 in the third to clinch the win and the star for the mids.

Karl: 3:54

And, by the way, this weekend was a busy day for tennis in Annapolis. In addition to the Army match, it also played host to the Patriot League Championships for the women. They took place at the Flugelmoor Tennis Stadium, which is right across the river, next to the rugby facility and the golf course. The mids were 21-6 and seated second behind Boston University heading into the weekend. They got things started right by knocking off Bucknell and Army to get to the final against the favored Terriers. Bu had just defeated the mids 4-2 two weeks ago up in Boston, but in the final things tracked just a little bit differently.

Karl: 4:25

Navy got off to a great start by winning the doubles point, and after that the mids did pick up a win at the number five singles, with Michaela Cheng getting the job done. But then they came up short in the number one, number two and number six matches and found themselves down three to two with two matches to go. But then Sia Chaudhry rallied to win the second and third sets in the number three match after dropping the first set six love. And that squared things at three all. So now it was all up to Kate Lee.

Karl: 4:49

In the number four match, lee came out strong, winning the first set six two. But then she lost the advantage when she dropped the second set six one. And then the third set was back and forth from the start. It ended up going to a tiebreaker, which brought even more drama. Lee fell behind 5-2, then won the next two points before her opponent, emily Zhao, held serve to go up 6-4. And now Li was facing not just one, but two championship points. She won the next point on Zhao's second serve and then took both of her service points to go up 7-6. And now Li herself was looking at championship point, which tells you how quickly things turned around. And she did not waste the opportunity. Lee stayed consistent on the next rally and when Zhao's ground stroke landed long, the mids had their first league championship in the program's history. You know, I watched the highlight video of this match and I've got to tell you that when Kate Lee realized she'd won, the wave of emotion you saw flowing through that entire team and the coaching staff was just priceless. Congratulations to the athletes, the coaches and anyone else connected with the Navy Women's Tennis Program. It was great to see the team take home the hardware after fighting so hard all year.

Karl: 5:49

Okay, we are done with the sports update for this episode Coming up. Next we have our deep dive segment, where we will be joined by a returning guest who will share her perspective on that terrific win by the Navy Women's Lacrosse Team over Army. Stay with us. You know, one of the things I really enjoy about this podcast is having the opportunity to meet people who are associated with the different Navy sports, and it's even better when they come on the show to share their expertise and bring some true value to the show. One such person is Cynthia Lisa from the class of 2000.

Karl: 6:32

Cynthia joined me last year to preview the women's lacrosse team and I had such a great time I immediately made a note to invite her back at some point this season. The Mids win over Army gave me the perfect opportunity to get her back, so I'm very happy that she could carve out the time to join me today. Cynthia, it is so great to have you on the show with us again. Welcome back. Thanks for having me. I'm excited about this one. Yeah, it's always fun to break down a Navy Wynn over Army. So before we get into that itself, I wanted to get your assessment of the team going into the season. Okay, so what did you see as their strengths? You know they're coming off a 13 and six year six and three in the conference and they got all the way to the semifinals in the Patriot League tournament, losing that real tough double OT game against Army. So what did you see going in and what gaps did you think needed to be kind of tightened up?

Cynthia: 7:20

So I think you know, one of the biggest things is the youth of the team. Last year and we talked about this last year and when you're returning, you know a youth cadre, kind of successful athletes that's always beneficial because they've got another year under their belts. They're much more confident, you know, and Navy just always seems to bring in these younger players who they can rely on, which is huge, you know. I will say I went to the Duke game and they came out super strong and we actually left, you know, after the third quarter it was freezing and stuff, and then Duke started mounting a rally and that's kind of when you sometimes see the youth come into play because they're not used to being put in that position and they've got to fight to maintain their lead. So I think that you know it's a blessing and a curse, right, they have a lot of talent in the team, but it's the chemistry building the experience, you know, and working as a unit together that they really kind of just needed to tighten up after the first couple of games.

Karl: 8:27

Yeah, that makes sense, and we can talk a little bit about that late as the season wore on too. Now, one of the things that that caught my attention early and it was, you know, pretty disappointing. As a fan, I couldn't help but be a little bit worried when I saw that Ava Yovino was lost for the year Knee injury I presume, and it was before the first game, probably within a couple of days before the season even started, in that game against Duke. And she wasn't the only one either. I don't know exactly when Leelee Denton and Isabel Thornburg went down, but they did. And all of a sudden you got got three significant, you know, weapons on offense that are no longer available. So when you're dealing with that kind of loss as a coach, what are some of the things that you do to kind of help them focus, put the setbacks behind them in the rear view mirror and just move forward?

Cynthia: 9:19

I mean, the nice thing about a team like Navy is they're never really you know down.

Cynthia: 9:25

They're always just reloading. If you look, they've got one of the biggest sidelines in the sport, so they always seem to have these weapons kind of ready to go. I think what it takes is then just building confidence in the players that you now have to rely on. But also you might have to adjust some of your plays and some of your style of play. You know, depending on who you're losing and what they are good at, you have to find someone to either fill that role or you have to adjust the roles that are on the field. Injuries are just so hard to deal with as a team, especially if you're just days from your first game, you know. But the benefit for Ava Jovino, who you know there's no great thing when you lose a season to an injury, but she's only a sophomore.

Cynthia: 10:07

So you know, having a stellar freshman campaign. She's going to come back as a junior and just want it even more. She's still been a part of everything you know, as far as being in the huddle, learning the plays, being on the sideline and things like that. When I've had injured players in the past, I almost make them kind of like a coach you know, like, hey, you're gonna be on the sideline with me, you're gonna be another voice for me. So now she has that big picture view and I bet she's just gonna have a killer second class year. It's unfortunate about Leelee Denton. You know, a captain, that's just really tough. I don't know if we talked about this at all, but she was a walk on to the team, you know, and then progressed her way up and made captain, and that's just just such a devastating way to go out.

Cynthia: 10:48

But, um, I think Navy does what they do you know so well they adjust, they adapt, they overcome, and they have such incredible athletes, um, who you know, even if lacks IQ or you know, which isn't usually the case, but if it would be the case, they can just get them up to speed very quickly.

Karl: 11:05

Right, right, okay. So now let's go ahead and get to the game itself. Both teams played a fairly challenging non-conference schedule. I think Navy fared a little bit better, but both of them were 4-1 in league play. Coming into this game, in fact, army had won four in a row, thanks to Allison Riley and Bridget Duffy two very strong players who are having excellent seasons. So I was wondering if you could point to maybe one thing on offense and one thing on defense that the mids absolutely had to do if they wanted to come out on top in this one.

Cynthia: 11:35

Yeah. So I think defensively, matchups were huge. You know you talked about Allison Riley, but Bridget Duffy is really their huge star and she's just had a killer. She had a killer freshman year. She's a dual sport athlete at army, so I think matching her up um you know was was huge and that, and then also matching up allison riley, so that was really important to know. Um, that definitely had come into play. I think, attacking wise, you have to attack as a unit. You can't rely on one star or one, one player. You really love these games where it's like a couple of athletes have three goals or instead of having one athlete have nine goals. I mean, don't get me wrong, if that's how you won, that's fantastic also. But if you have that, every player is a threat and they're working well as a unit, looking out for each other and playing as a team. You can't beat that and clearly Army could.

Karl: 12:29

Yeah. Yeah, I mean just reviewing the stats. What do we have? Three players with hat tricks, right, and then just a slew of them with two goals apiece, and yeah, so I think they I think they said like seven different players scored in that game, so that was pretty cool.

Cynthia: 12:44

That's awesome. That's what you want as a coach. You want every attacker to be a threat because they can't stop them, all you know if you have one or two stars. It's easy to plan your defensive strategy around that, but it's much harder. It's like whack-a-mole, you know, you don't know who to hit first. So I think Navy really did. That's what their strategy and you know. Everything was great.

Karl: 13:11

Right, right, no-transcript. Did you see a specific turning point in the game? Or was this one of those games where there was just pressure, pressure, pressure building all throughout the game and then at some point, you know, the goal differential versus time remaining just became too great for the Black Knights to overcome? What did you see there?

Cynthia: 13:36

So I'll be honest, I really thought I know Army had the first goal, but I really thought Navy just looks so much stronger from the start. They had a lot of shots early on and if you look at the stats, I mean it was six to four after the first quarter and then it was 11 to six at the half. Going down five goals in an army Navy game into the half is just so, so tough. And the second half of the game was really balanced. I mean there were it was four to four in the third quarter and then 2-1 Navy in the last quarter. So if Navy hadn't had that lead going into the half, it could have been a different game.

Cynthia: 14:11

So I really think that they came out. It's so much better to be at home. I think they came out on fire and I think just continually pushing the pace and getting those shots off is just demoralizing. Getting those shots off is just it's just demoralizing. Yeah, I do think that by the end of the third quarter you know, yes, they were that even in the third quarter he scored four goals. But I think at that point you know you were thinking we're still down. You know you got a lot to come back and in an Army Navy game with two teams at her, you know it's usually similar type of athletes. You know they've had a similar schedule throughout the year. It's just it's hard to come back from that.

Karl: 14:49

Yeah, yeah, I would, I would agree. I think for me, when I was seeing that I, I I kind of felt like it was just, you know, kind of like what you're saying they, they started out strong, they're getting a lot more shots, and it just felt like Army's defense was just under heels the whole time and eventually they're just going to get tipped over. And that's basically what happened, you know, starting really in the second quarter. And then, you know, like you said, they played even through the third, but at that point Army couldn't afford to play even they needed to really make up that differential and it just didn't happen.

Cynthia: 15:27

Yeah, it's really like I said, it's really hard with teams like this, like if you go down it's a bigger mountain to climb than if you know it was an easier team or something that uh, and maybe not the end.

Karl: 15:31

Star Right Right yeah.

Cynthia: 15:32

Clearly, you know all of those factors and you're, and you're away, you're army, you're away, you're you know the, the um not the home crowd and everything. Uh, so they just.

Karl: 15:47

I think that they came out on fire, like people usually do in an army navy game, and they were not taking the the foot off the gas pedal and and that was very clear, right, right, yeah, and I have to believe that I saw a game earlier against I mean, it's army navy, so the.

Karl: 15:58

So the players know what's at stake here, obviously, but I just remember watching, um, the game against St Joseph's and you know it was an on-conference game, so that was good. But they were up 12-7. And I said, okay, it looks like they're in control here. And then, darn it, you know, the game just kind of got away from them. So I said I wonder, I'd like to be in the locker room right now when Coach Tim Chull is talking with them, just to kind of see, because I got to believe that whatever she was telling them then were things that were in their mind, you know, against the Black Knights, because at one point the score was 12 to 7. And that's when, maybe just for a minute, I felt a little uneasy thinking back to that St Joseph's game. Obviously that didn't happen and the Mids kept up the pressure, actually outscoring Army the rest of the way.

Cynthia: 16:40

Yeah, that's so funny because I never felt that way. I felt even when they scored that first goal, army scored that first goal. I'd have to look specifically at the stats, but I think we already had a couple shots off and I was like, if you can get those shots off, they're going to go in eventually. You just got to keep attacking, attacking, because now their defense is tired, the pressure really is on them, and you'll get the goals eventually. That was a little bit of the youth coming out, you know, just not getting those goals right away, but yeah, right, right, yeah, you're right.

Karl: 17:12

I mean they just look so much sharper. The shots were crisp and everything, and sooner or later they're going to land on cage and start finding the back of it, so that's cool, all right. Before we get into some of the key players on offense, I wanted to take a look and see what the Mids did defensively. We brought up Allison Riley earlier Last year in the Star Game. She had nine goals and three assists and they scored 15 goals, so she accounted for 80% of their scoring. So on Saturday, riley only had one goal on two shots. So clearly they figured out a way to adjust for her and the main thing I just saw was that whenever, wherever she was, there was always somebody within a stick length of her, you know, and whether they're playing zone or man to man or whatever, I mean, there's somebody always accounting for her. When you're coaching your players and you have an opponent with a player that just had an excellent, excellent game against you previously, you come up against them again. What are some of the things that you discuss with your defense?

Cynthia: 18:13

So I think in this case they, you know and I apologize, I don't know who the defender was that was on her, you know, or if it was a couple, you put your top defender on someone like that you know and interestingly, she had a huge game in the end start game last year. Alison Riley did, but then she only had.

Karl: 18:36

I think three goals um in their double overtime game.

Cynthia: 18:37

So they had already started to make some of the adjustments, because and you know, I was looking at her stats specifically and she had five goals against Loyola and Loyola Loyola only beat Army by one goal this year. So she's definitely a huge threat, and I think Bridget Duffy is a huge threat as well. So I'm looking at matchups, I'm looking at who my top defenders are that I can put on her. I mean, there's a couple other things you can do defensively. Obviously, you can throw a face guard in there, which is something we saw, probably that if you're not familiar with that a lot of people saw that in the women's basketball tournament.

Karl: 19:11

The face guard on on Caitlin Clark you know she did phenomenal.

Cynthia: 19:12

If you can prevent that um top score, it's defeating for a team, is defeating for that person. Um, you can also just, you know, send her double early. Uh, if you're going to double her, you can send that double early. Uh, maybe take that double from a weaker attacker that you think isn't as much of a threat. Um, you know. So those are some some good options that you have defensively. But I think clearly, uh, navy put a top defender on her and said you know, we don't want her anywhere, you know, far away from you and everything. So, like a pseudo face guard, but maybe not as intense.

Karl: 19:46

Right, right, Okay. So then we had our goalkeeper, Felicia Giglio. She came up really big too, especially in the first half when the game was still kind of at least in terms of the score it was really tight. The one thing I liked was that the Black Knights never scored more than two consecutive goals, and you know how that can be. Obviously, if a team kind of gets on a run, all of a sudden the floodgates open and it's just like, oh my God, what's going to happen next? So that was really good to see. A couple of those shots were stopped at point blank range, whether it was on a free position or just an enclosed shot. When there's a lot of action going on in front of the cage, say from eight meters in, what's happening there, what are you telling your goalkeeper to do and what should her expectation be of her defenders when all that's going on?

Cynthia: 20:37

Yeah, so interestingly she's a plebe which is fantastic.

Cynthia: 20:42

I was looking at her bio and she was like a 55 meter hurdle, you know. So she's got the speed clearly, which is what you want out of a goalie. I think what Navy did really well was force the bad shots. Defensively, you have to kind of give up the fact that they are going to get shots right, like shots are going to come off, but you want to force them in the best position for your goalie as possible. So you know that she's not getting necessarily point blank. But if they are point blank, maybe there's other sticks in the air and uh, navy does a really good job of that. So force them into really bad angles, maybe force them to a weaker hand. If they don't, they're not as great.

Cynthia: 21:21

Uh with both their hands, but also just have defenders there. It's hard to shoot through people if they're especially if they don't they're not as great, uh with both their hands, but also just have defenders there. It's hard to shoot through people if they're especially if they're on your hands. So I think navy, defensively, did a lot of that and she's communicating with her defense like hey, force her here, go this way. Um, you know, because we all know goalies are good in some areas and they're weaker in other areas so she's saying get them here where I know I'm stronger, um, and things like that.

Cynthia: 21:48

So if you look at the stats for army I think it was they had a 42% shooting percentage but 65% shots on goals. So if they're if they're getting there. You know if they're getting on goal, they're getting the goals in. So Navy did a really good job of forcing them um them outside, where they weren't comfortable shooting.

Karl: 22:07

Right, right, okay, we're going to go ahead and take a short break now, but before we do that, I did want to give you all a couple of ways to stay up to date on Navy sports. The first is to join the Navy Sports Nation group Facebook page. I've got a link to that in the show notes. Just click on it, answer a couple of questions and you'll be good to go. The second way takes even less time. Just hit the follow button on whichever platform you're listening to this podcast right now. It can be Apple Podcasts, spotify, iheartradio, it doesn't matter. Once you do that, every episode will be downloaded to your directory when it's released and you can listen to it whenever you're ready. So please consider becoming a member of our group and you can actually tap that follow button right now to show your support for the podcast. I'm looking forward to having you join us. We'll be right back. Welcome back to Navy Sports Central, Karl Darden. Here with you Joining me today is Cynthia Lisa, from the Class of 2000, and we have been breaking down the Navy women's lacrosse team's big win over Army.

Karl: 23:17

So, Cynthia, now let's look at some of the standout performances on offense. We all know that you can't score unless you have the ball right. And when it comes to that, the performance Alyssa Daly turned in against Army controlling the draw was just terrific. Up until then I'd never really focused on her technique and while watching her I was thinking, man, she's just popping up that ball in the air and taking it herself. You know, two years ago they had Reagan Roloffs who was basically, I just thought, a draw control savant, you know. But what I saw Alyssa Daly do on Saturday was something else. I mean just blew me away. So I was wondering if you could speak to that a little bit. How much of winning that draw is technique and just having a ridiculous sense of timing for the rest, whistle, you know, because I think that a couple of times Navy got the draw because Army went early, because they knew that they were probably going to lose it anyway, you know. So what are your thoughts on that?

Cynthia: 24:09

She is incredible, I mean, and she's listed as a defender.

Cynthia: 24:14

So, really interesting that she's become this draw specialist. She didn't even, I think, compete her freshman year. I don't think she saw the field. So all of these factors, this was her moment, she was ready to go and she was out there. Wrist strength, wrist speed and then IQ on the draw are the three top things you look for in a draw specialist. Obviously the technique. Ideally it is popping it to yourself every time, because you don't want to necessarily send it out to the circle unless you know for sure someone's going to get it.

Cynthia: 24:47

So, we really kind of preach that and then that wrist strength, you know, or wrist speed. First of all, we practice a lot of times just whistle reactions, so knowing that and be able to react really, really quickly. It's kind of similar with what we look for in a goalie, right, that speed, that reaction time, um. And then it's all risk strength, um, a lot of it, not necessarily um the risk strength to like get it where you want but to be able to handle that ball, you know, with sticks are flying at you and things like that. You know it's great that you got it up in the air, but you have to one-handed grab it protect it get it, you know, out to space before you can really progress into the offensive end.

Cynthia: 25:24

So she was just a stud. It's really hard. Obviously, as you said, you can't score without the ball, but it is so demoralizing when your team does not win the draw, because even if you score a goal and then they get the ball, it really sets a team back.

Cynthia: 25:42

So I think, that was a huge, huge piece of the game on Saturday as far as their mental, you know status and I don't know if you saw her on the sideline, but she was just fired up, you know, so excited after the game and you know she knew what she had done for her team.

Karl: 26:00

Right, right. And I tell you what the the. The point in the game where I felt like, okay, this looks like it could be the mids day was they were down 3-2, but then they scored three goals in a row to make it 5-3, right, and then they go to the circle. Daly wins the draw, it pops up in the air, it goes to herself, then she scoops up the ground ball and as soon as she scooped it up, you saw Anna got her up, just sprinting down the left side and it was not the best angle for Alyssa to make the pass, but she just threw just a beautiful pass just over the top and Anna caught it and just drilled the shot, you know, to put him up and it happened basically in like six or seven seconds. So it was boom just right away. And when that happened I just like jumped up and I said, all right, this is, I could get used to this. You know what I mean.

Cynthia: 26:57

So it was great. I'm sure that's what Tim Shaw said too.

Karl: 27:01

So it was just a great. I mean I was thinking, okay, yeah, she's winning these draws, but when she gets them, she knows exactly what to do with them too. So it was that other's tendencies they have to know.

Cynthia: 27:11

Um, you know, you have to know every draw taker is going to take the draw and you have to know what each girl on the circle, what their strengths are. You know, are they fast? Are they quicker? You know grabbing it out of there? Are they tall?

Karl: 27:41

Um can.

Cynthia: 27:41

I put it behind her and she's going to be the first to spread to there. Um, there's just so much. So I, you know, and and I mentioned the IQ piece of it you have to have smart draw takers. Um, you know, they can't just be machines who don't know how to adjust or anything like that, cause that'll very quickly, um, go downhill If you have another team who figures you out. Uh, it's just a game of chess. Every time you get up to the draw of where am I putting, where am I going to try and draw to? Where am I putting my draw team? You know, it's just. I mean, the draws are really exciting. Part of the game that everybody always asks, like, why don't you go back?

Cynthia: 28:18

and you know if they are a basketball person or any other sport. Why do you go back to the center circle every single time and like, oh, they can't. You know, it's just such a key part of the game and I love that you have the opportunity to get the ball back, no matter what just happened, Right? But girls nowadays, athletes nowadays, are just, they're specializing in a draw younger and younger, and you know, I think it's been around in the males, the men's game, for longer. But, uh, women, really, we have a lot of draw specialists nowadays, which is just it's, it's fascinating to watch. Um, you know, the ones who's do their, like Alyssa did. She just did her job and did it amazingly.

Karl: 28:59

Yeah, she sure did, Okay. So now I'm just going to give you some names here and I just want you to share your thoughts on how they played throughout the game. First one Tori DiCarlo.

Cynthia: 29:12

Obviously she had such a great day. She's consistent. I think she's upper class on the team. She was their go-to and she really had a fantastic game. And she really had a fantastic game. You know, when you know, in a game like Army, that's important and lots of pressure and things like that, that's what you're looking for Someone just to come step up and make it happen. And she did that for Navy today or that day.

Karl: 29:39

Right right Michaela Williams.

Cynthia: 29:42

So I'm going to tell you she is probably my favorite player on Navy to watch. She is so scrappy, she's from Ohio, so not a hotbed of lacrosse, and Cindy really found a diamond in the rough watching her play. She's only a plead. She can handle that stick. She handled it under pressure. I think she's going to do huge things for Navy. I just I love watching her play. We saw her, you know, in the Duke game. I couldn't get over it. I was like this is, you know, like her first game and she's out there as a player.

Karl: 30:13

Yeah, just was unfazed.

Cynthia: 30:15

Unfazed, completely with all that confidence and just excited with her teammates and to step into that role. You know, I know Eva Jovino was similar last year, but it's just incredible watching her play. I really, really am excited to watch her for the next few years.

Karl: 30:33

Yeah, I'm going to be even more excited to watch the two of them play for the next two years. Yeah, eva and Michaela, that'd be pretty cool.

Cynthia: 30:42

All right, and I know some of the girls they've got coming in um as plebes next year are.

Karl: 30:47

it's just going to be amazing to watch man I don't know how, I don't know how coach timshaw keeps doing it. It's, it's amazing. It's just a recruiting machine. Um, all right, uh, emily messonese can we talk about?

Cynthia: 31:01

you know? Um, she defined what armyie Neve is about to me, you know, for those who weren't there or weren't watching. She got smacked in the face, blood everywhere, oh, my God. We were down, you know, on that end and there's just, her hand was covered in blood, was covered in blood, but the highlight, the highlight was Michaela Williams running out there and finding what ended up to be half of her tooth that had cracked in that sequence.

Cynthia: 31:35

She is just such a stud If you watch her go to goal. She is strong, she's powerful. She gets her hips pointed right at the goal and does not let anything stop her. So you know, other than being obviously an incredibly tough athlete, she just she knows what she needs to do to get it done. She's a junior on the team. She's stepping into that leadership role. You know, I wouldn't be surprised if she's a captain next year. She just she embodied what Army Navy was that day. Yeah.

Karl: 32:04

She embodied what Army Navy was that day. Yeah, did you happen to watch the highlight reel by any chance? Or it was one of the YouTube videos that kind of did the highlights of the game, and the very last scene on this one was her smiling in the camera, pointing to her tooth.

Cynthia: 32:21

Well, what's so funny is, you know, I was there with my family and my middle daughter wanted to meet her and take a picture, and so I told her. I said this is what Army-Navy is about. My youngster year we were up at Army for the game. You know, back then, when we played on like a grass field and it was, you know, your family and friends were the Army true fans there, but we played in an area.

Cynthia: 32:44

You know, we family and friends were the true fans there. But we played in an era, you know, we didn't play with goggles and I was coming through two defenders and get smacked in the face and just kept playing and they whistled you know whistle stop everything. And I was gushing blood. So, you know, I got pulled off the field and they basically, you know, said hey, what day is it and who's the president? And they stuck a bandaid on me and sent me back out Um and that kind of defines army Navy.

Cynthia: 33:13

After our, after the game, they sent me to the army hospital. I think I got five or six stitches in my um, in my forehead, right above my eyebrow, but it was like nothing's going to say. You know, I told her that story. I said nothing stops you in Army Navy. You're losing blood. She's got stitches in her mouth. She's got hepatitis. She's like put me in coach. And that is what every single player, whether it's Army or Navy, every single player out there would have done the same thing. It was amazing to watch.

Karl: 33:42

No doubt, no doubt, amazing to watch, no doubt, no doubt. Now, you know, sticking with that theme there in terms of the physicality of the game, obviously not just talking about this game, but there's just so much more athleticism in women's lacrosse now and because of that it is going to get more physical Now, basically, you know, when I saw how Messonnier's got hit, I don't know that a helmet would have helped in that particular case, obviously one of those clear face shields would have. So my question is you know I saw some other headshots being taken. You know, kind of like you know I couldn't tell how strong they were just from you, just watching it in real time. But I wanted to get a sense from your perspective as a coach. Are most of these shots to the head, with the exception of the one where it was just a straight on hit to the mouth? Are they mostly glancing blows, or do we need to start talking about guarding against potential concussions here?

Cynthia: 34:35

Well, I think this has been an issue you know, a growing issue in women's sports. I think the two big issues that they're looking at is concussions and ACL tears. Um the, the concussion piece of it isn't necessarily solved, um, with a helmet, um, there's other options. You know, they make the cue collar. I'm not, I'm not sponsored by them, but they're welcome to send me a few ones.

Cynthia: 34:59

But uh you know, the athletes can play that, supposed to reduce the effects of getting hit, and things like that. I think that what has happened too is, especially in the college game. They're super focused this year on that. In between the 30s they put so many green cards and you basically can't touch each other, but then they're, you know, down in the attacking end, their defensive end. It's like it's still a little bit of craziness.

Cynthia: 35:26

We always say that what's going to fix that is is officiating and coming out officiating immediately that this is not tolerated. We are not going to put up with you swinging your sticks and things like. That is where it needs to go, I think, honestly. I think Army and Navy are both very disciplined teams.

Cynthia: 35:45

I didn't think it was crazy, out of control as far as, like the swinging of the sticks, I think it's just, like you said, so physical, the amount of players that went down One of the army players who we know is very injured, and things like that and it's just, it's so hard to watch because they are giving it all with their bodies and I think that sports science needs to keep up with it. Um, you know, I lost two to ACL injury tears this year, uh, and I think that it's gotten to the point where they are putting so much more research into the ACL tear aspect of it. But either one is is is lacrosse ending. But going back to the point about concussions, for what makes it very hard in this is you're going on to be a Naval officer or an army officer and if you have too many concussions it could start impacting what your career looks like.

Cynthia: 36:39

Um and that happened back in my day as well. So I think that we just need to continue to keep the game safe at the lower levels and it'll rise up, and also the higher levels, because what's happening is the younger levels see the higher levels much more aggressive and think they can get away with it. But I do think there has been a shift this year that it's a little bit less physical. I just think Army Navy is always going to be the most physical game that you see yeah, yeah, I would agree with that.

Karl: 37:11

Okay, so we're kind of getting down to the end here, but this was a big weekend for you guys, you and all the alums that came back for the game. I want you to describe and let's talk about, like before the game and then maybe during the game and certainly post uh, just the emotional atmosphere that you were dealing with, um, as as Saturday progressed, um, this game clinched a star series for the mid, so that had to be pretty cool having a women's lacrosse team do that. Share your thoughts with me a little on that and what it means to you.

Cynthia: 37:39

Well, it's just. I think the shift has been huge this year. They've really, uh, navy Women's Lacrosse has really tried to um pull the alumni in. I mean, it's been building for a few years, but this year is certainly different.

Cynthia: 37:50

Um, for the first time ever with the CNO, and the superintendent are women, and that has been, you know, just incredible as an, as an alumni, as, um, a mom of someone who wants to go to the Naval Academy to see. So they had just it was unbelievable. I mean, the crowd was huge. First of all, as I mentioned, we used to play to our parents and maybe a couple of company mates, maybe the boys team, would you know, club team would come, things like that, but the stadium was packed, packed with Navy fans.

Cynthia: 38:22

And they really rolled out the red carpet for the alumni. There was a superintendent's tailgate and an alumni reception going on during the game. I've never not sat and watched a lacrosse game, so I really just tried to take in the atmosphere for once and not get so caught up in the game like I would want to from a coach and playing perspective.

Cynthia: 38:41

But just walking around the superintendent's tailgate you've never seen so many female admirals. I mean it was unbelievable, and the superintendent is one of the most gracious, personable people um you know to talk to. To relate to my uh father is the deacon at the Naval Academy and they speaks just so highly of her.

Cynthia: 38:58

My daughter has met her um and then enrolls the CNO and she's just as equally personable and friendly and stuff. And the superintendent did say that the cno had said to her let's have a day to celebrate women's athletics at navy and you know, they chose the arm and a lacrosse game and we, just every alumni there was like I just can't get over this. Um, you know, we used to play. I was joking, we used to play, I was joking, we used to play in like the outfield in hospital point for some of our practices you know, here you are with stars and you know which are a big deal at Navy to bring in stars like that for a game.

Cynthia: 39:35

You know you only see that for football games usually, um, but to treat the alumni with such respect and such sight and things like that. Uh, one of my good friends is Aaron Delaney. She was Aaron Rollick while she was there, a phenomenal player. She was one of the alumni captains of the day, you know, which is something they've started to institute, and even she played, 10 years after me, a division one team and she said we used to joke it was our tens of fans in the stadium, not like that. So the atmosphere was just they had tailgates, they had the band, they had performances to. You know, women's sports in general are having a moment that they've long waited for and deserved, and this is just incredible. It was so cool.

Karl: 40:17

Yeah, I mean it's. It's certainly well-earned. Just seeing the enthusiasm throughout the game firing off the manual t-shirt cannon which was which was basically someone with a a strong arm just throwing a balled up t-shirt into the crowd, it was pretty awesome and this is how much my wife was getting into it. Every time Navy scored she was standing up trying to get a t-shirt, as she should.

Cynthia: 40:37

I mean we had you know, I run a youth league too and we had members of our youth league out on the field in the tunnel and things like that and when you can get.

Cynthia: 40:47

You know, navy does a great job of being the hometown team and everything and you've got the stands are packed with young girls who wanted to play at navy and the, and what was crazy to me is the young girls lining up to take pictures with the cno in the suit. They don't even know who they are. They're like I want a picture too. You know, I took a picture with them. It was really really cool and very special.

Karl: 41:11

That's funny.

Cynthia: 41:13

Yeah, it was awesome.

Karl: 41:15

All right. So last question for you here Look back at your time at the Academy and where the game was, and then compare it to what you saw on Saturday, which you've done a very good job of describing. So what are your thoughts on what it'll take to keep the program on this kind of trajectory?

Cynthia: 41:32

You know, the name of the game is the $26 million lacrosse building that they're bringing in. That's what they're competing with. Clemson, who just started a program, has the first women's lacrosse only facility. You know we were at the Maryland Northwestern game a few weeks ago and the stadium the new field hockey lacrosse stadium that they just renovated sold out with twenty four hundred people.

Cynthia: 41:59

So, to have games played at Navy Marine Corps. I had friends who are coaches in attendance. They said why aren't the national championships here? Um, you know, so to combine the atmosphere that you saw on Saturday, if I was coach Simshaw I would have had every potential recruit there in the stands going this is what you're going to play for.

Cynthia: 42:18

And then, to you know, combine it with the, the resources that Navy is providing for lacrosse is just, you know, it's going to be a game changer, I think, for a lot of these individuals who are considering Navy. I also think that Navy the allure of serving, and you know the opportunities that Navy provides I believe this class is very like Navy pilot heavy, which it shows that they're willing to serve long-term Navy pilots, one of the biggest commitment that you can sign up for as far as time-wise. So they're committed to being in the Navy and being officers and serving their country, which to me, shows the kind of recruits that she's bringing in. Not only are they strong lacrosse athletes and obviously great character and human beings, but they're willing to serve their country and I think when you have that in your program and you combine all those outside resources, it's just like a machine. It just keeps turning because that attracts the same caliber and type of people.

Karl: 43:24

Yeah, yeah, it's kind of self-perpetuating.

Cynthia: 43:26

So yeah, pretty cool yeah, yeah, it's kind of self-perpetuating. So yeah, pretty cool yeah exactly All right.

Karl: 43:29

Okay, Cynthia. Thank you so much for joining me today. It's been a great conversation. I hope to have many more of these in the future. By the way, it was great. I can be your Navy Women's.

Cynthia: 43:38

Lacrosse expert. I love it, you know. Like I said, have you ever talked lacrosse? Or maybe women on there?

Karl: 43:43

Well, you got a standing invitation and I'll be definitely taking you up on it, so take care, and we'll talk to you soon.

Cynthia: 43:49

Thanks.

Karl: 43:51

Okay, I'm going to make a program decision here and put off the question of the day until the next show, mostly because I want to release this episode ahead of a pretty busy work week for me. So we're going to go ahead and pick up with our Midwatch segment on the other side before we close things out. So you'll recall that the two athletes we're tracking on the mid-watch are Emily Messonese from the women's lacrosse team and Brock Murtha from the baseball team. We've already discussed Messonese a little bit already and I'm sure you'll all agree that she's as tough as they come, as that Army game clearly showed us. Messonese had a hat trick in that game and dished out one assist. She followed that up with a total of six goals and two assists in the wins over Lehigh and Lafayette. Five of those six goals came against Lafayette just a couple of days ago. For the year, messonese leads the team in goals with 58 and points with 73. She's also third on the team in ground balls with 18 and second in draw controls with 55. Obviously, messonese is a huge weapon on offense and the way she and the rest of the team are playing it could be their opportunity to challenge Loyola for the Patriot League title this year.

Karl: 45:03

Now let's go ahead and check in with Brock Murtha. The Navy baseball team swept Lehigh over the weekend to move to 24-16 on the year. They are currently in second place in the Patriot League and well positioned for the tournament. Their remaining games are against Mount St Mary's, which is a non-conference game, and the three-game series against Army, which will decide the star. Murtha is batting a solid .341, which leads the team among those players with over 75 at-bats. The same is true for his OPS and on-base percentage. Murtha is reaching base over 47% of the time, which is critical in either getting things started or keeping an inning going. Murtha hasn't been called on to pitch much this season, but he has appeared in six games and has a 1-0 record, with one save. The main goal now is to make sure the team is in good form when the Patriot League tournament begins, and there is no doubt that Brock Merthyr will play a significant role in the team's success. That's going to do it for this edition of Navy Sports

Karl: 45:51

Central. Thank you all so much for joining us Now. If you like what you've heard, please be sure to hit that follow button wherever you get your podcasts and remember to get the word to all the other Navy fans out there. Once again, I'd like to thank Cynthia Lisa from the class of 2000 for joining me today. It is always great to get her perspective on women's lacrosse. By the way, our question of the day will return for our next episode In the future. If you'd like to respond to that, you can sign up to the Navy Sports Nation group Facebook page and answer our poll

Karl: 46:16

question. And just a quick reminder the views expressed on Navy Sports Central are my own and do not reflect those of the US Naval Academy or Navy Athletics. By the way, the music used in Navy Sports Central comes to you courtesy of Audio Jungle. This is a great site for purchasing the rights to use the music from thousands of artists around the world, and those featured in the podcast will be credited in our show notes. Talk to you soon, everybody. Until next time. This is Karl Darden. Go Navy Beat Army.